Apolline Kohen
interviewed by Emily McCulloch Childs
for Aboriginal Art Magazine, first issue, 2009
During her time as Director at Maningrida Arts & Culture, Apolline Kohen managed to combine co-ordinating some 25 exhibitions a year with running the art centre and the Djómi Museum, the regional museum that acts as the custodian for the area’s cultural and historical material. She also initiated several important exhibitions, including the major survey show Crossing Country, at the Art Gallery of New South Wales in 2004 and the retrospective of John Mawurndjul, <<rarrk>>, at the Museum Tinguely in Basel and the Sprengel Museum in Hanover in 2005. In 2008 she became the acting director at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory (MAGNT) in Darwin.
I spoke to Apolline in her home in Darwin from my studio at Shoreham on a Sunday afternoon.
EMC: What did you do in Paris, before you came to Australia?
AK: I studied in Paris and left for Australia two days after completing my diploma at the Ecole du Louvre and my specialisation in Oceanic Art at the then Musée des Arts d’Afrique et d’Oceanie (MAAO, now Musée du quai Branly). I was eager to learn more about Aboriginal art and the only way at the time to further my knowledge in this field was to go to Australia. I ended up in Canberra at the National Museum of Australia (NMA).
EMC: What impact did the Magiciens de la Terre exhibition, the 1989 Paris exhibition organised by the Centre Georges Pompidou, have on your life?
AK: Magiciens de la Terre was a landmark exhibition that challenged me as a teenager interested in art. It opened my mind to other contemporary art practices happening outside my European culture or America. It triggered emotions I had never experienced before. I was a bit familiar with African art through Picasso’s work, but had no idea about contemporary art practices from Asia, Oceania, let alone Indigenous Australia. When I decided to study art history, I chose to specialise in Oceanic art as I was aesthetically and emotionally drawn to these art expressions. Unfortunately, Aboriginal art was only a small component of the curriculum but it gave me the idea to go to Australia.
EMC: You have said of Karel Kupka, the Paris-based Czech artist, collector and writer whose collection of superb barks are housed in Paris, that ‘he was the first to recognise the individuality of each artist’1. How did Kupka influence you in your appreciation of Aboriginal art?
AK: I was fortunate to have access to the Kupka Collection while I was at the MAAO. I also admired Kupka’s approach and work given the then view most people had on Aboriginal art, he approached Aboriginal art from an artist’s perspective not as an anthropologist – quite revolutionary at the time. I loved the art of Arnhem Land, but I would not say that it’s entirely because of this bark collection that I came to have a passion for bark painting. I first went to Australia in 1994 for my honeymoon and we spent most of our time going to galleries looking at as much Aboriginal art as we could. It almost became an obsession. This made us want to come back, hence the decision to come in 1996 to live in Australia for a year. We never left…
EMC: What is it that so moves you about Aboriginal art?
AK: The aesthetic sense that you see in works by artists such John Mawurndjul, Rover Thomas, Kitty Kantilla, Yala Yala Gibbs and Makinti Napanangka. I think they all have in common this burning desire of communicating the power and beauty of their land and it must resonate with me.
| John Mawurndjul, Ancestors at Milmilmingkan, 1994, ochre on bark, 168 x 110 cm. Private collection. Courtesy Maningrida Arts & Culture and Joel Fine Art. |
EMC: How did you feel when you first arrived at Maningrida?
AK: I first came to Maningrida in 1998 while I was working for the NMA and had no idea before I arrived at Maningrida airport what sort of community it would be. I came with an open mind, with no preconceptions. I am adaptable, so nothing came as a shock. At first, the hardest was not to be able to source my favourite coffee and food – not a big drama.
EMC: What was your experience like working with these artists, and bringing Mawurndjul to your own ‘country’, Paris?
AK: That was my favourite part of the job. To be honest, I loved working with some artists but not all – we all have our preferences and personalities. I most loved working with those who were not only talented but also very professional. I travelled with many artists, you develop either friendships or cold relationships on trips as it quite taxing to spend all your time with someone you barely know for days. John has taken me to special places on his clan lands so I was very happy to be able to show him my country and culture. We had great times together and he knows Paris better than many Australians as he has been to Paris five times with an ex-Parisian as travelling companion. I treasure lots of memories and stories from these trips.
EMC: Having visited Paris in 2007, I found John Mawurndjul’s installation in the bookshop at the Musée de quai Branly an inspiring, accessible way to present Aboriginal art –where the general public can view it, rather than the offices, where the Ningura Napurrula artwork and others are installed. How did you and Mawurndjul plan this installation?
AK: It was quite a coup to get John’s work in the bookshop, it was also a challenging task! John worked really hard on the column. His concentration is exceptional and he could paint non-stop for 12 hours while myriad journalists were coming through. It was truly mad. We had to come back to Paris as we were not satisfied with the ceiling plan and proposed style of execution. John ended up supervising himself in a -5C environment. I became the facilitator. We both worked hard but enjoyed every minute of it. John’s dedication and professionalism paid off as the result is quite remarkable and we have been getting some really good feedback. We did celebrate in style when we finished this project!
| Sonia Payes, John Mawurndjul, C-type photograph, 2006, 127 x 127 cm, Ed 10, Curtin University Art Collection |
EMC: You had great success with commercial exhibitions of barks, lorrkon, the large poles, and fibre. Was this a challenge?
AK: A well-prepared bark has more chances of lasting than some of the badly prepared canvasses I sometimes see on the market. A bark has a beautiful unique texture, which is part of the artwork itself. Sculptures, lorrkon, are easy to sell as when collectors have no wall space left in their house, they can always find an empty corner for a sculpture…it’s all about quality of the art, not the medium. Some people say fibre is ephemeral but I don’t see this as a problem. We collect and buy artworks because we love them. Is it really that dramatic to think that it might not last forever? Who cares? People have to learn to enjoy things and not always think of an investment that will last for generations. It is all about changing people’s perceptions and playing on emotions when you sell art. As long as it is good art and you’re good at communicating your passion for an artist, you will succeed. Remember we have seen art dealers selling empty walls in the 1950s with Yves Klein.
| John Mawurndjul, Lorrkon, Collection NGA |
EMC: You’ve been quoted as saying ‘From my experience in Maningrida, it’s been very good being French…because they think I’ve got a culture as well.’2 Did the artists react differently to you because you were French than if you were Australian?
AK: I think it made my life easier as I did not have the baggage that some Australians have toward Aboriginal issues. I had no preconceptions about Aboriginal culture and no guilt about how Aboriginal people have been treated by white Australians. I just interacted with artists in the same way I would have done with anyone. And I always refused to play the race card.
EMC: How did you find living and working in an Aboriginal community, where people are still engaged with their cultural traditions, and art centre managers are able to witness ceremonies and the like quite often?
AK: It is fantastic to see that ceremonies and cultural practices are very alive and play an important part in people’s lives. I enjoyed being able to witness some cultural practices but never felt the urge to be part of it. I have seen too many white people desperately wanting to be ‘initiated’. I feel sorry for these guys…
| John Mawurndjul, Mardayin, ochre on bark, Collection NGA |
EMC: You took Maningrida art to Europe and the Middle East. Do you think appreciation for Aboriginal art is growing internationally?
AK: I strongly believe that appreciation of Aboriginal art is growing at an international level. However, this needs to be nurtured. I urge the Australian government to support and fund more exhibitions to tour overseas, especially from public art institutions. I feel that Museum curators and Directors have a role to play there.
EMC: Has your passion for Aboriginal art changed your perception of contemporary art that you might see on your return to Europe?
AK: Of course, yet I regard Aboriginal art as one of the interesting contemporary art movements at the moment but I am also interested in artists such as Tracey Emin, Yinka Shonibare, and Zadok Ben David.
EMC: In 2007 you implemented the Aboriginal Art Fair in Darwin, run to coincide with the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Art Award (NATSIAA). Why did you decide to start the Fair?
AK: I felt that there was room within Darwin for arts centres to promote their works while most collectors, curators, and art critics are in town for the art awards. And it worked.
| Lena Yarinkura, Group of 5 Dogs, 2008, ochre on fibre, from the Menagerie exhibition, Object Gallery |
EMC: In 2008 you became acting director of MAGNT and instantly had the difficult task of co-ordinating the NATSIAA, Australia’s largest and most important indigenous art award, in its 25th ‘Silver Jubilee’ year. How did you find this?
AK: It was particularly challenging as I just started in the job when the ‘silent protest’ started.
It is also always hard to step in when a project has already started as you always feel that you may have done a few things differently. Hopefully, I have learned a lot from it and the 2009 Award will be a walk in the park in comparison. We’ll do a few things differently this year in terms of the event and selection of works etc. Additionally, I had to deal with some very bad news in my private life, so I will always have mixed feelings when thinking of the 25th Silver Jubilee.
EMC: The ‘silent protest’ you mention: seven art centres pulled out of the award in protest of the inclusion of Irrunytju Art Centre, whose advisor John Ioannou also operates a city-based commercial gallery. You broke your silence on this and have welcomed open discussion.3 I find such openness refreshing in an industry that thrives on gossip. How do you think the Aboriginal art world is responding?
AK: I believe in open communication and I am sick of the constant gossiping in the art world. This drove me to run the forums and discuss issues with key players in the arts industry. The benefit has been that people realised through our discussions how important the award has been in the development of Aboriginal art. It is easy to criticise the award, but without it many artists would not be where they are now. This is not to say that we should not try to make it even better. No one came with revolutionary ideas but some good comments were made and we will certainly take some into account. For example, this year, the judges will be involved in the preselection as well as the final judging. I think that was a very good suggestion so we took it on board.
EMC: Aboriginal art led you to Australia; having lived here now for some years, do you think of it as your home?
AK: Yes, Australia is my home now but I do need to be able to visit Paris regularly as my family and some dear friends live there. I am Franco-Australian and my goal is to enjoy as much as I can the best of both worlds!
Further reading:
1 Kohen in Michael Fitzgerald, ‘A Parisian Romance’, Time Magazine, 15 May 2006.
2 Kohen in Michael Fitzgerald, ‘A Parisian Romance’, Time Magazine, 15 May 2006.
3 Ashleigh Wilson, ‘Indigenous art awards furore prompts changes’, The Australian, August 7, 2008 and Kohen has since run forums in Alice Springs and Darwin inviting art centres to share ideas.